Welcome to Press & Argus Livingston, MI Customer Service: Subscribe Now | Place an Ad | Contact Us Bus suspect says he was bully victim -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Site Admin Joined: 31 Dec 1969 Posts: 0 Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 8:54 am Post subject: Bus suspect says he was bully victim -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Reader comments and feedback for the Bus suspect says he was bully victim article. Back to top Report Abuse CynthiaD Joined: 26 Sep 2007 Posts: 891 Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 8:56 am Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Oh this is a mess........he did this, he did that...I this...I that....This is so typical of children once caught for bad behavior. At this time, there's really no way of knowing the truth. Children will look you in the eye and deny just about anything. I know this first hand...and more than once. Back to top Report Abuse lifeisntfair Joined: 18 Apr 2007 Posts: 220 Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:09 am Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes Cynthia they will lie to save their own butt, nobody really knows the truth.. I havent kept up much on this story.. but I did read the article today. I totally beleive what the victim states its so sad that kids so young commit these kinds of crimes, hopefully they get the help they need (all of them including the victim) so they dont preform these acts as adults Back to top Report Abuse mbjhnstn Joined: 29 Aug 2006 Posts: 19 Location: Tylertown Ms Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:29 am Post subject: Kids -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- When did they learn to do this..?How did they learn to do this? Who and/or what were they watching to learn how to do this? Where did they have access to something to teach them this? Its not something they saw going down the street, in a store? AT Home? I think that would be the thing to find out _________________ Bill Johnston Back to top Report Abuse billveik Joined: 06 Mar 2007 Posts: 31 Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:41 am Post subject: Culture -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The problem is with current culture.......this taught and untaught belief that freedom means just doing what you want, not doing what you want within the guidelines. Combine that with their ability to watch everyone around them doing the same thing without penalty, and it becomes learned behavior. The kids were only doing what they wanted to do.....they have been taught the entire length of their young lives the idea that what they want is the most important thing, and that their is nothing wrong with doing what you want. CHECKING what you want to make sure its the right thing to want just isn't part of the picture. If anyone is actually trying to make it part of the picture, do you think kids buy that story about its importance if its coming from someone who does not practice it themselves; RE: speeding, cell-phoning while driving, etc. It isn't how far you take this principle. Taking it anywhere allows it to exist. Without following up by explaining about drawing lines, they are left up to themselves where to draw a limit, if any. The Virginia Tech killer was only doing what he wanted. He had the belief that things were done to him, so he had the right do things back. He had the belief that whatever he decided to do was OK to do. He was NOT given enough guidance in how to make those decisions, only the importance in being able to make them. NOTHING about the importance of making them CORRECTLY. Back to top Report Abuse CynthiaD Joined: 26 Sep 2007 Posts: 891 Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:53 am Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think I get your point.....maybe not...(after reading it 3 times....) Something like this? Culture today doesn't know it's boundries and right from wrong since we're all doing it anyway. If you teach your children by talking the way you write, I'm sure their confused. Back to top Report Abuse lifeisntfair Joined: 18 Apr 2007 Posts: 220 Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:20 am Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- it does seem like nowadays kids are doing as they please, even those who know what is right and what isnt, sometimes I feel its because they want to do something that is wrong and illegal because they may think (and is often true) that nothing will happen to them.. That is what happens when youth offenders get away with their crimes, its a continuing cycle with other kids.. and in todays society kids and adults have the mindset " I will do as I please its a free country" and with that not understand the consequiences of their actions or just not caring Back to top Report Abuse Spartan Joined: 07 Oct 2007 Posts: 129 Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:44 am Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am the aunt of the 10-year-old (9-year-old in the story) and I was there during this interview with the P/A. Here are some more facts that were told to the reporter but not mentioned during the story. The 9-year-old's story has never changed during the many interviews that he has had. He was the only one of the 3 determined competent to stand trial meaning that he knows right from wrong. The reporter also gave him a test to determine if he knew the difference between the truth and a lie. To hear him say that he started wearing a belt that he could wrap around him 3 times with a belt buckle that the other boys could not undo was really emotional. He also said that the 11-year old said he would "shoot" him if he told. His mother called Lynn Parrish to ask if her son could return to school since it was determined twice by a court appointed psychologist that he was telling the truth and he is not a risk. Lynn Parrish told the mother that she was told by the Prosecutor and the Detective Walsh that the 9-year old is guilty and they have evidence. (Evidence that has yet to be disclosed to the defenense attorney.) Ms. Parrish told the mother that she needed paperwork from the court stating that it was safe to allow him back to school. Since when does the court determine what the school does? Isn't it inappropriate and unethical for the Prosecutor to state that he is guilty before it is even determined if there will be a trial! As for your questions about where they learned this, here is what I know. The 11-year-old was giving the 9-year-old pornographic websites to visit. The 9-year-old did not even have a computer or access to the internet. Also, my nephew said that the 11-year-old said that his Dad used to come an "lay in his bed." Custody has since been removed from the 11-year-old's father, but I am not sure of the reasons. Also, according to my nephew, the 7-year-old had been performing sex acts on his little brother since before this incident was reported. He also said that the little brother of the 7-year-old always tried to "touch and hug and kiss" him. I understand that the P/A could not report all of these details because a lot of it is alleged by the 9-year old, but here is some of the rest of the story. Back to top Report Abuse lifeisntfair Joined: 18 Apr 2007 Posts: 220 Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:40 am Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well I hope the truth comes out, what I did read on this story it seems the other boy I guess the one in this story was forced to do what he did, and bullying does play a major factor in this type of things well any crime for that matter, they are scared, seems like the older boy had some kind of "power control" over the other kids.. Back to top Report Abuse Spartan Joined: 07 Oct 2007 Posts: 129 Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:46 am Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- My nephew said emphatically that his mouth was not on anyone's penis and his penis was not in anyone's mouth. The risk assessment counselor said that she has been doing this for 20+ years and she believes my nephew. The prosecutor is not happy with this report. I believe she is out for blood and she has a preconceived notion of how this is going to turn out. When she receives competency and risk-assessment evaluations that she does not like, she orders them repeated, which just prolongs any kind of resolution. Sounds like this prosecutor does not believe in "innocent until proven guilty!" Back to top Report Abuse lifeisntfair Joined: 18 Apr 2007 Posts: 220 Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:55 am Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Who is the prosecuter if you are allowed to say, the one workin on my case was bradford, she took orders from Dan Garber , and I sometimes felt they worked for the defence and not for us... and it seemed like they tried to get the boy off that killed my son it was and still is very disturbing Back to top Report Abuse lynneO Joined: 09 Dec 2006 Posts: 2416 Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:55 am Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I also find it disturbing that the prosecutor would use the word "guilty" too. I could see them arguing "high risk" or some such term, but guilt is to be determined in a court of law. Not by the prosecutor. I think some aspects of this story are blown out of preportion. I hope these kids get help and the law leaves them alone. Back to top Report Abuse Spartan Joined: 07 Oct 2007 Posts: 129 Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 12:08 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am not sure the name of the prosecutor. She is approximately 50 with gray hair. It has been really difficult for my family, especially the mother, to try to keep the details private. She is so upset by the conduct of the court, the inappropriate statements by the prosecutor, the judge reading the police report in some format, which is prohibited, all of the evaluations and postponements. She finally had it on Friday and met with the P/A. She actually wanted to call a press conference with Fox 2, Channel 7, etc. to expose the entire case. She talked to Lynn Parrish again on Friday, and Lynn insisted that she receive a report from the prosecutor saying that he is allowed to return to school, that he is not a risk. Lynn said that she hasn't even taken it back to the school board who put him on indefinite suspension in the fall. (It is my understanding that an indefinite suspension has a limitation of 6-months, which will be approaching soon.) Lynn said that they need a guilty or not guilty verdict to let him back into school. This case will not be resolved before the end of the 6-month time frame, with the prosecutor's agenda. My nephew said that he will not plead guilty. "Saying I did something when I didn't is the same as saying I didn't do something when I did." He and his mother also said that they will not take the same type of deal that the parents of the 11-year-old are hoping for their son. My nephew wants to go to trial or have the charges dismissed. That is all he will settle for. He has some pretty strong convictions for someone so young! Back to top Report Abuse lifeisntfair Joined: 18 Apr 2007 Posts: 220 Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 12:12 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yeah thats the same lady, Luckily for me in my case the report did not have to be read, we have also wanted to talk with other news, because of the sentence the boy got it was a salp in our face... I think the county has its own ways in dealing with things and it makes me sick, nothing seems to be done correctly.. email if you ever wanna chat holmesk73@yahoo Back to top Report Abuse LionTamer1 Joined: 13 Aug 2006 Posts: 206 Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 12:35 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Spartan, You're right, newspaper can't always print every detail of an interview. Based on what you wrote, it sounds like the reporter told your nephew's story in a way that she could verify, which is probably hard with a "he said, he said" situation, and because the parents of the other boys didn't respond to your nephew's allegations. I hope the situation works out for all the families. This is a tragic story and can only imagine the heck all the families are going through. God bless to your nephew and family. Thanks for sharing the rest of the story. Back to top Report Abuse -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Page 1 of 3 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- billveik Joined: 06 Mar 2007 Posts: 31 Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 12:57 pm Post subject: CynthiaD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "I think I get your point.....maybe not...(after reading it 3 times....) Something like this? Culture today doesn't know it's boundries and right from wrong since we're all doing it anyway. If you teach your children by talking the way you write, I'm sure their confused." Response-I do not have children. I have a potential stepdaughter (18). Here is how I would educate.... the 18-year old is fond of saying "I could shoot them in the face" when she is angry with someone. She uses it as a way to vent her anger instead of acting upon it. She does not really want to do it, facts that say she KNOWS and also ACCEPTS the concept of right and wrong in this area. EVEN if she were to ever WANT to do something like that, the fact that it is WRONG prevents her from doing it. It being wrong means she does not do it. But she does not have a clear acceptance of right and wrong in all areas yet. She has ALWAYS had a belief that doing what she wants is most important. Sometimes, even if it means lying, subverting, deceiving, sometimes whatever she has to do in order to make it happen. In seventh grade she decided she did not want to do homework. Mother and Grandmother had no power to stop it, she was simply focused on "what I want and what I don't want", so she was not doing it. Months later, grounded to the apartment. No Internet. 1 hour freedom in the front yard per day. Stuck like that. No trips. "Worst time of my life".....Stuck till grades came up. Sick each morning, full of worry wondering how low her grade had dropped. Stuck in the cycle of thinking. Could have been explained to her how that thinking caused her pain. Times when its right/harmless, times it isnt. How to distinguish between the two. Nobody wanted the conversation. Sophomore year high school, used same thinking to go to a Super Bowl Party she was told she could not attend. "I WANT TO" again takes over. Got into a fight with the girlfriend of the boy she wanted to be with. Smelled like alcohol because the adults there were drinking. "Worst day of my life"......cause of the boy thing I suppose. Could have found out the other little witch was going to be there and not gone....but I WANT TO took over. 2 incidents of I WANT TO, 2 most painful events of her life.....COINCIDENCE? Each year they get older, with more freedom, the results get closer to catastrophic. Now comes this year. Senior year. Decides she wants to take her car to the west side of the state to visit school friends in college. Google Maps could have told her she did not have time or gas money for it, she was just going to "hang out", but I WANT TO took over. Told her Mom she was going shopping at 12 Oaks, then took off from Trenton. Got to Fowlerville, realized she did not have time or money to make it, and turned around. Got back on the eway, looked down to change the radio station, and totalled the car into a grove of trees. PLPD insurance. Could have been injured, she could have lost her life. She lost her car and her freedom for her senior of HS. She worked and saved for that car, something to be proud of and show off. Gone. The conversation remains unspoken. What is next years event? NONE of those things were intended, none of them were caused by IWANTO disease. But IWANTO disease most certainly put her in a position to have all of those things happen. If the line is being drawn, it isn't in the right place. And it is related to what and how we are teaching. The "popular", "normal", "acceptable" way is the way producing the poor results we comment on here DAILY. Sorry to run so long. Back to top Report Abuse lynneO Joined: 09 Dec 2006 Posts: 2416 Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 1:10 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Isn't Iwanto disease really just a subcatagory of imateenager disease? Poor decision making skills being a major symptom.....Some suffer from the disease less than others. "The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers." Socrates (attrib by Plato) Back to top Report Abuse Howell Parent Joined: 20 Sep 2007 Posts: 9 Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 1:28 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I know all of these kids and I know that the 10 yr old was having trouble with the 7 yr old always trying to pull his pants off whenever he walked off the bus. Why don't the courts check out the story about the 7yr old stealing the bus drivers wallet. They may find out that the 10yr old is telling the truth. And as for the 11yr old, he can stand trial. He is just putting on a very good act for the courts to get away with it. He knew what he was doing was wrong and is now trying to stay out of trouble. I know both families and I feel sorry for what they are going through but there needs to be a end to this so that the kids (and families) can move on. The courts need to take the time to really look at everything. Have stories changed along the way or stayed the same???? I know I heard many times about the 7yr old trying to pull the pants off of kids on the bus and of him stealing the wallet from the bus driver. Courts and attorney's let's do the reach and be done with this. Back to top Report Abuse billveik Joined: 06 Mar 2007 Posts: 31 Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 1:30 pm Post subject: LynneD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Isn't Iwanto disease really just a subcatagory of imateenager disease?" 2 Thoughts. Once it happens, yes. But 2,3,4,5 times in the same area it becomes an issue of "fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." Times 2,3,4,and 5 happen because the conversation and teaching did not take place after time 1. Mom won't have the conversation for fear of the teenager's response. Teenager knows this, and over-reacts to take advantage. Either Mom will back off, or simply not bring it up at all (Described by the parent in these cases as "picking and choosing their battles.') My thnking being "having the converstion 18 months ago would mean that the daughter WOULD STILL HAVE HER CAR. Other Thought. If it is Imateenager disease (which certainly exists), what explains so many non-teenagers doing this? So many people ignoring what is truly right in order to do what they want. Like the VT shooter, Columbine, Hitler, that Osama Been Hidin dude, the FootJoy killer trying to ignite the bomb in his shoe? I WILL EXPLAIN. Society concentrates on the level of incident (speeding is OK, bombing isn't), instead of focusing on the idea that allowing the thinking to exist at all is what creates all of the incidents, no matter what the level. We are so caught up in each deciding for ourselves where that level is, without further/proper education on how to choose levels, that a larger segment of society is simply not on the same page anymore. You and I decided strolling onto a college campus and shooting 32 people is not OK. Someone else out there decided it WAS. Back to top Report Abuse lifeisntfair Joined: 18 Apr 2007 Posts: 220 Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 1:39 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I will tell you the courts have their minds made up before this case went to trial, Im sorry I never beleived that until recently, when my son died the next day the damn ASS. prosecuter Dan Garber, already had his mind made up on what the charge would be before the investagation was really even started yet WTF is wrong with this county? We need to get this crap to the media and we need to get this to the community on their rulings... And aS FAR AS Mrs. Bradford she has to listen to him since he is her boss, and the judge well she doesnt do anything but take the advice of the prosecuter, its like she has feelings but she doesnt act on them instead she just does what the prosecuters say like a puppet, and I dont think enough investagating has been put into play to the older of the boys. Maybe they liked him better or he has ties to the community or family in the legal system that nobody knows about, Im sorry but I beleive this.. I feel the county is corrupt and they decide the sentence before the case is presented... Spartan please get back to me, I feel we have some things that need to be said Back to top Report Abuse Spartan Joined: 07 Oct 2007 Posts: 129 Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 3:10 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sorry, lifeisntfair, but I was at the grocery store. I agree completely that the court system in LC is corrupt, but I did not believe it until I participated in this case. Before, I has little to no experience with the courts except for my divorce, which was very easy. I don't know how much involvement Dan Garber has directly in this case, but it seems that the prosecutor is running the show. She determines what she wants and when she wants it. The defense attorney will not stand up to her or to the judge. In my opinion it is because of the relationship that they all have. They act like buddies in the court house. Where is Jack McCoy when you need him! I don't know if my sister is planning to call a press conference, but she is very upset. I think if there is no resolution to my nephew attending school soon, she will call all of the major networks just to ensure that the ball is rolling and there are some checks and balances on LC. Howell Parent: It is nice to hear that my nephews account of the events are corroborated. Do you mind if I ask how you know these kids? My nephew said that he was having trouble with the 11-year-old at day care for months. The 11-year-old would ride his bike up behind my nephew and hit his tire so my nephew would fall. He has countless stories like this detailing the bullying that he was experiencing. My sister discussed this with the daycare several times. In fact, my sister was informed by the daycare of this entire bus incident, not the school, not the police. As far as the surrounding facts in the case, the court system is still in the pre-trial phase. No evidence has been discussed in the court room. The defense attorney, prosecutor and judge have met several times, but unfortunately, usually, it is behind closed doors and my sister has not been invited to attend. We wait and wait and finally the defense attorney tells us why it has been postponed again or what additional evaluation my nephew has to complete. The prosecutor also does not believe that the 11-year-old is incompetent to stand trial. She ordered another competency hearing on him. (This is another example of her not liking the outcome of the reports and asking for re-evaluation.) I wonder how much all of this is costing the tax payers. I know that my nephew is tutuored at the expense of the school district. The 11-year-old admitted to his actions in this incident. I believe that is why the family would be happy with the consent calendar. I don't know his mental state or his home life. I do know that the father had custody and lost it. I believe that he is with his mother now, not sure, and the discussion at the court house is that she has some drug problems. (I have no facts to back that up; I don't know that family.) As far as the stories, my information is that the 11-year-old has changed his story several times with the police and the risk assessment counselor. My nephew's story has remained consistent. Still, the prosecutor does not believe him. (I think she believes that she is a human lie detector!) I have not heard much about the 7-year-old because he was found incompetent to stand trial. I think that competency hearing was for charges of molesting his little brother. Howell Parent- do you know about these molestation charges? The details about the stolen wallet and my nephew asking to have his seat changed, which has been verified by both the regular and substitute bus drivers, will come out in a trial, if this proceeds that far. This level of detail has not yet been discussed in court. I hope someone from the school board is reading this forum and will put this on the agenda before Lynn Parrish gets around to it. Back to top Report Abuse lifeisntfair Joined: 18 Apr 2007 Posts: 220 Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 3:16 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yea they worked my case the same way, all behind closed doors and the only way I would know the whole conversation is if I hired my own attortney, and it wouldnt have done any good, Dan Garber is the Assisstant Proesuter Im not sure if he only works with felony cases and im not sure if your nephews is one, but he tells what prosecuter that is given the case how to do their job, and in my case I wasnt impressed on her making sure the victim (my son) was justifed.. and this child got away with Killing him and his family got away with complete negligence since they were involved I would like to talk more Back to top Report Abuse lynneO Joined: 09 Dec 2006 Posts: 2416 Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 3:22 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I agree billveik, that some teenagers leave their teenage years with no more sense of responsibility than they entered them with. Some of it due to parents who won't teach, and some of it due to kids who won't listen. The VA tech guy was another animal altogether. That guy was at least a sociopath and possibly psychotic. Back to top Report Abuse fbuckner Joined: 28 Aug 2006 Posts: 393 Location: Howell Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 3:29 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Its all the buddy system in that court house. Like i said before I know a case where Reader and the defendant and plantiff attorney all once worked for Kizers office and he was the mediator for the case. The Plantiff was railroaded by all involved his attorney as far as im concerned should have beent he one filling and petitionong the court but is was the defendants who did all the work. All his attorney did is shuffle paperwork and run up a bill. The system is a buddy system and they dont investigate crap they do enough to cover their collective asses and stick someone hard. It wont doyou any good to bring an outside attorney because he wont be in the clique and you will be railroaded anyhow. We have paperwork although i dont know if it will do any good to file with the state about the judges and the attornies involved. damned if you do damned if ya dont. _________________ F.Buckner.Jr MiCPL.net Back to top Report Abuse Spartan Joined: 07 Oct 2007 Posts: 129 Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 3:29 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- lifeisntfair: I remember your first post, but I don't remember all of the details. Can you tell me again? Back to top Report Abuse Spartan Joined: 07 Oct 2007 Posts: 129 Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 3:35 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FBuckner: Please tell me more about the paperwork to file with the state. This judge read the police report, which she was not supposed to do. My sister did not meet with the police, so my nephew's side of the story is not on the report. As far as the prosecutors, judges, and attornies, I don't expect them to be fighting in the court house, but I do expect them to zealously represent their clients despite of their personal relationships with each other. In my experience, and from the sounds of some of the posters, in the experience of others, personal relationships play a very strong role in the representation of the clients. It is really disgusting, and I am very disheartened by this entire experience. I will listen with a more open mind to people when they related their court nightmares. Back to top Report Abuse billveik Joined: 06 Mar 2007 Posts: 31 Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 3:51 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "I agree billveik, that some teenagers leave their teenage years with no more sense of responsibility than they entered them with. Some of it due to parents who won't teach, and some of it due to kids who won't listen. The VA tech guy was another animal altogether. That guy was at least a sociopath and possibly psychotic." I think that with so many of these incidents taking place, it can't be that. If that's the case, then we have people going indiscriminently crazy every hour of the day. Face it-when Columbine happened, we all wanted to believe it was a once-in-a-blue-moon type tragedy. Now it seems we hear about a "Columbine-style" plot being foiled nearly EVERY OTHER WEEK. (Perhaps, new people getting the idea its OK because the Columbine kids got notoriety, and got away with it?) Think about it, "Columbine-type" is now so commonplace it has its own phrase! 20 years ago if somebody cut you off on the road, they acted embarrassed and honked an apology, before you could ever say anything to them. It was as though they knew before you did. Because they DID know. They approached that intersection with the thought of going when its safe. That is why most of the time they got it right, and most of the time nobody cut anybody else off. That person who cut you off today (happened, didn't it?) approached that intersection with one thought in mind. I DON'T WANT TO WAIT. WHICH IS WHY they almost always go, and don't care whether they cut you off. Doing wrong served their needs, it wasn't really a bad wrong, I wanted to do it, so it was OK. Everybody does it, so its OK. How much was your last insurance bill? Its that high because a lot of the people thinking that way while driving aren't producing OK results with it.....you didn't think the insurance companies were just gonna absorb that cost did you? Just trying to demonstrate how this trail of thought can be applied to basically ANY subject. Back to top Report Abuse justacomment Joined: 09 Nov 2007 Posts: 15 Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 4:08 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I personally know the defense attorneys that are on these two cases. They are one of the best out there. They are doing what is absolutely in the best interest of these children. That is who they represent. Some of you think that it is taking too long for this case to move through the system. I disagree. Juvenile Court is not like the adult court. You can't just pay a fine and walk away. There is a lot more at stake here. Let's find out why these children did what they did and get them help. That is what Juvenile Court is all about; rehabilitating juveniles so that they don't end up in the adult system and end up crowding our jails. I pray for everyone involved everyday. I suggest that some of you do the same. Back to top Report Abuse lifeisntfair Joined: 18 Apr 2007 Posts: 220 Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 4:09 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Rick you hit the nail on the head, and we must as a community do something to stop this crap... along with Gun Control we need a justice system that will work and not be bias Spartan just email me holmesk73@yahoo.com Ill explain Back to top Report Abuse fbuckner Joined: 28 Aug 2006 Posts: 393 Location: Howell Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 5:52 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dont mistake me for being in favor of gun contrl that is a brady /clinton thing I am for enforcing the laws on the books. Spartan here is the link i have let me know it if works http://www.agcmi.com/pages/RiRequestform.htm They should be there somewhere in that mess. Good luck and hopefully we can make a change in the court system in this county _________________ F.Buckner.Jr MiCPL.net Back to top Report Abuse -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Page 2 of 3 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- lifeisntfair Joined: 18 Apr 2007 Posts: 220 Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 6:53 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You know what I mean Rick not Control but proper ownership is what I should say... and as far as the juvinele court I know its not like adult court, but I feel that even then its a decision that is decided before any trial is given and there is not a whole hell of alot we can do about it Back to top Report Abuse lifeisntfair Joined: 18 Apr 2007 Posts: 220 Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 6:59 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- And Also what makes me feel so discusted with the county and friendships is when the case was being heard in "chambers" with the boy's attorney who killed my son and the prosecuter with the probation officer they came out after in there for a while all smiles, WTF my son is dead and they come out of Chambers smiling and the defence smirking!!! I think that in itself is messed up.. why cant we as the family know what happened back there? were they planning there after hours dinner party as well while I have no child? I know damn well we only heard parts of what was said.. and then after being told this boy would get some time in a detention center and 7 years probation he got 1 day and 2 years probation.. I really see the justice there and I see how well the prosecuter works for the people!!! Im sorry Spartan but it seems that your case isnt any different, and I dont know if there is anything we can do about it except bitch and it will get us nowhere, we all know how the justice system works and it doesnt work for the ones it needs to, sometimes it seems they are for the criminals and not the victims Back to top Report Abuse Spartan Joined: 07 Oct 2007 Posts: 129 Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:13 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Justacomment: I have heard that my nephew's defense attorney is very good also. And like I said before, I am not very familiar with court proceedings. I don't see how asking for a re-evaluation of the same thing by the same person can be any different. I think that is the definition of insanity. Also, if the judge read the police report, why didn't the defense attorney ask that she recuse herself? How is this in the best interest of my nephew? Can you explain why the meetings with the defense attorney, judge and prosecutors are behind closed doors without the defendant? Also, referring to lifeinsntfair's comment, her son was killed and the powers that be come out of the court room laughing! This has been going on for 8 months and we are no farther today than we were in may with the exception of the competency and risk assessment evaluations. Should this reasonably take 8 months? Back to top Report Abuse justacomment Joined: 09 Nov 2007 Posts: 15 Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:29 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Like I stated before. Juvenile Court proceedings take longer than adult court cases. It is NOT uncommon to have more than one evaluation. The prosecutor's and the defense attorneys just want to make sure that the evaluations are in the best interest of the child. It is like getting a second opinion for a tragic disease. In the end you are dealing with a child's life here. Wouldn't you want to make sure that everything is done in the best interest of your child? If it took 10 evaluations to figure out why a child did what they did, I would support every step. It is not like an evaluation can happen overnight. These are not evaluators that are waiting for a call from the Courts. They are doctors and psychologists that have an active practice. They need to make sure that the juvenile gets a thorough evaluation and time for the report to be generated. Would you rely on an evaluation that took 1 hour to complete and another hour to write the report? I wouldn't. I have seen these reports and they are numerous pages in length. They take a lot of time and effort on everyone's part. I know that it is hard, but be patient with the Court system. In the end it is the children that are benefitting from the services provided. Back to top Report Abuse fbuckner Joined: 28 Aug 2006 Posts: 393 Location: Howell Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:07 am Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- They come out of that room laughing for a few reasons. 1. they are erogant 2. smug bastages 3. they have become numb from all the stuff they have to listen to 4. money money money _________________ F.Buckner.Jr MiCPL.net Back to top Report Abuse Spartan Joined: 07 Oct 2007 Posts: 129 Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:00 am Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- justacomment: The appointments for the evaluations and the actual evaluations were completed quickly, it was the court system that took so long to receive and review the report. Also, the risk assessment evaluation came out in favor of my nephew saying that he is not a risk and he is telling the truth, basically. A second evaluation was ordered for the same evaluator. Same evaluator, same kid, but expecting a different outcome? That is the definition of insanity. How could a different outcome be in the best interest of my nephew? It seems that from my situation and the similiar experiences from lifeisnt fair, the services in the end are not providing the most benefit for the children. They are servicing the agenda of the prosecutor! Back to top Report Abuse lifeisntfair Joined: 18 Apr 2007 Posts: 220 Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:40 am Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Rick to your reply, arrogant,oh yea smug, must definatly They could really give a rats ass to my case they are just "doing their job" so to speak.. and why in the world would they want the same evaluater to do another assessment? I can see if they chose to have a "second"opinion but from the same person COME ON.. something sounds fishy there.. The parents of the boy that killed my son were given a risk assessment test and passed with Flying colors although due to there negligence and lack of supervision with their child that my son is gone.. now yes its ok to leave 14 year olds home alone, but then you have boundries which they didnt provide I would have this attorney of your nephews do his job, him and the prosecuter need to stop being all biddy buddy and protect their client.. I am curious to the outcome of this case, and the one with the 11yr old, something just isnt sounding right to me Back to top Report Abuse Spartan Joined: 07 Oct 2007 Posts: 129 Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:31 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Howell Parent: Are you C and K's mom? Back to top Report Abuse -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Page 3 of 3 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------